Difference between revisions of "Talk:Halifax's Mugging Rules"

Revision as of 09:26, 18 May 2005

Hal, I must disagree with your system. Though it sounds OK in some respects, the math is way too hard to figure without a calculator. sap damage/current hp is very akward. Thus my proposal to make it a greater than/less than deal. Note that in my system there is always the chance of rolling a one, which won't knock out much of anyone. Well, maybe a 13th+ level thief could automatically KO a peasant, but that is reasonable. Your damage for hilts makes sense, but I would like to see blunt weapons usable as well. Should a club be more or less effective than a sword hilt?

Also, you should write a formula for the sap damage, with Str bonus, as I can't get (1.5+2.5)x2 to equal 12.

Hal sez: Have you tried (1.5+4.5) x2, Abner?

The KO % is less complicated than figuring xp; I mean, we can round off and all; could we be the only D&D group in the world where no player wears a calculator watch?

Can you konk someone with a flail without, you know, just wounding them? Certainly the butt ends (pommel stand in) of blunt weapons can be used...

Maggie sez: I'm for limiting sapping (just like backstabbing) to be only done by thieves.

Noah: While I am (surprisingly) not intimidated by the math, I do have a few comments.

Firstly, I'm not so sure about all armor, including leather, coming with a helmet. The thief's listening score is dependent on being unhelmeted, and, frankly, I just don't like the 'idea' of a helmeted wizard, rogue or druid. It doesn't fit in with my image of those classes. I understand that really Hal is trying to give us a break here, but I gotta call them like I see them.

Second, while a character's hit points does take level and CON score into account in some ways, it doesn't in others. This is how Adan sold me on the idea of a saving throw. Is a 2nd level fighter with a max of 20 hit points as formidable as a 10th level fighter who has been *reduced* to 20 hit points? Certainly not. But according to these sapping rules (unless I am misunderstanding them) they would both have an equal chance of getting knocked out. I think this should not be the case, and thus the saving throw is required.

Lastly, I appreciate the desire to differentiate between a pommel 'cosh' and a blunt weapon which 'wounds' but for all intents and purposes I think there is no functional difference. Is a blackjack really a better tool for knocking someone out than a footman's mace, or is it just smaller (and possibly with a better weapon-speed and concealability)? All I can say is that from personal experience I've been hit on the back of the head with a lot of different things and what mattered most in whether I was knocked out was where and how hard I was hit, not the 'quality' of the bluntness that the weapon had. 'Density' might matter, if you will, but it seems that this would be best resolved in terms of dice damage.

Although... a blackjack doesn't really deal damage except as a cosh. Sigh. Maybe I could be convinced that a blackjack should have additional 'temporary' dice damage or something. But that's a special case. For general KO purposes I think a mace, table leg or handy flower vase should work just fine.

My revised rules are now up for those who are interested.