Difference between revisions of "Talk:Halifax's Mugging Rules"

Revision as of 13:01, 18 May 2005

Hal, I must disagree with your system. Though it sounds OK in some respects, the math is way too hard to figure without a calculator. sap damage/current hp is very akward. Thus my proposal to make it a greater than/less than deal. Note that in my system there is always the chance of rolling a one, which won't knock out much of anyone. Well, maybe a 13th+ level thief could automatically KO a peasant, but that is reasonable. Your damage for hilts makes sense, but I would like to see blunt weapons usable as well. Should a club be more or less effective than a sword hilt?

Also, you should write a formula for the sap damage, with Str bonus, as I can't get (1.5+2.5)x2 to equal 12.

Hal sez: Have you tried (1.5+4.5) x2, Abner?

The KO % is less complicated than figuring xp; I mean, we can round off and all; could we be the only D&D group in the world where no player wears a calculator watch?

Can you konk someone with a flail without, you know, just wounding them? Certainly the butt ends (pommel stand in) of blunt weapons can be used...

Maggie sez: I'm for limiting sapping (just like backstabbing) to be only done by thieves.

Noah: While I am (surprisingly) not intimidated by the math, I do have a few comments.

Firstly, I'm not so sure about all armor, including leather, coming with a helmet. The thief's listening score is dependent on being unhelmeted, and, frankly, I just don't like the 'idea' of a helmeted wizard, rogue or druid. It doesn't fit in with my image of those classes. I understand that really Hal is trying to give us a break here, but I gotta call them like I see them.

Second, while a character's hit points does take level and CON score into account in some ways, it doesn't in others. This is how Adan sold me on the idea of a saving throw. Is a 2nd level fighter with a max of 20 hit points as formidable as a 10th level fighter who has been *reduced* to 20 hit points? Certainly not. But according to these sapping rules (unless I am misunderstanding them) they would both have an equal chance of getting knocked out. I think this should not be the case, and thus the saving throw is required.

Lastly, I appreciate the desire to differentiate between a pommel 'cosh' and a blunt weapon which 'wounds' but for all intents and purposes I think there is no functional difference. Is a blackjack really a better tool for knocking someone out than a footman's mace, or is it just smaller (and possibly with a better weapon-speed and concealability)? All I can say is that from personal experience I've been hit on the back of the head with a lot of different things and what mattered most in whether I was knocked out was where and how hard I was hit, not the 'quality' of the bluntness that the weapon had. 'Density' might matter, if you will, but it seems that this would be best resolved in terms of dice damage.

Although... a blackjack doesn't really deal damage except as a cosh. Sigh. Maybe I could be convinced that a blackjack should have additional 'temporary' dice damage or something. But that's a special case. For general KO purposes I think a mace, table leg or handy flower vase should work just fine.

My revised rules are now up for those who are interested.

Maggie sez: N, helmets don't necessarily have to cover your ears (thus your listening score is not affected). Check this: http://tinyurl.com/dn42u

Noah: Yes, I understand it is possible to modify helmets, however the PH states that to use his hear noise ability, a thief must 'have silence in his immediate surroundings and must remove his helmet or hat' (emphasis added), suggesting that even a skullcap would affect this ability. I'm not sure if I think this makes sense or not -- a hat resting on a thief's head might very well screw up his crazy hear noise ability. I don't know. The PH also clearly states that, 'only Bards can wear ring mail or non-elven mail while using thief skills,' suggesting that an unhelmeted thief in chain mail can still not use his detect noise ability (because he is not accustomed to wearing such heavy armor and it is distracting, presumably).

Of course, nothing would stop a thief from wearing a helmet while on watch or what have you, but it might mean that he loses his hear noise ability or something similar.

Maggie sez: I have two points to bring up. 1. the detect noise skill is totally ridiculous. Noise is noise and can be detected because, well, it's noisy. I think this skill is really "detect faint sounds" when you stop and think about it. Unfortunately, detect noise is used as detect noise instead of "detect faint sounds" all the time. Because of that, 2. helmet/hat/whatever rules are even more ridiculous than detect noise skill. If you can't hear noise next to you while wearing a hat, you're screwed anyway becuase you head just got chewed off by a monster. I think detect noise skill is totally useless and since we're all proposing new rules everywhere, I propose an addendum to rules where "Detect Noise" does not exist as a skill, thieven or otherwise. Instead, thieves could get an extra 5 points to other skills. Check it: Maggie's No Detect Noise Rules.