Talk:Road to Kebnegard, Chapter Seventeen

tcm: this was also done by me, but the stupid computer logged me out.

   Baba Iaga: Ikkulu... that's someone I haven't thought of in a long time. Have the 
   octopuses come back? Nevermind, I don't really care. We differed in our choices, she and 
   I. When the octopuses came last, she was busy running around everywhere trying to stop 
   them with the boy king. She traded a lot for that abilty. She was searching the three 
   continents for things that she needed. These things may not have been available then, but 
   they're probably available now. In fact, they may even be commonplace and right under 
   your noses. This may be why she failed in her quest. She lacked an element to insure her 
   success.

Noah:

Baba Iaga most likely stayed neutral in the war with the octopuses, a position also taken by the Morkoth, if I recall.

According to Ikulu's Lament the octopuses did not come while she was running around with Alexander. She claims that she did not defeat them because she could not find them, and that she doesn't know who did the last time around. This raises the possibility of yet another defeat, invisible to both us and Ikkulu, about which we know nothing, creating a timeline like this:

World begins as an Ocean Octopuses defeated the first(?) time (Marduk defeats Tiamat with a spear) The Deluge Octopuses defeated the second time (Zeus defeats the Titans with a lightning bolt) Ikkulu tries to unite humanity with Alexander Octopuses defeated the third(?) time (according to Baba Iaga) Rise of Monotheism NOW (old ways returning)

If Baba Iaga is correct, and the Octopuses were defeated a third time, but not by Ikkulu, who managed to do it and how? The crucifixion of Christ would most obviously tie in... but how?

Further, if what Ikkulu needed wasn't available when she was looking, but is now, what changed?

Could the 'element' she needed be the words of power to which she refers in her Lament? Or was she wrong?

Of course, if Baba Iaga, in referring to '*the* three continents' demonstrates ignorance of the New World, there may be much even she doesn't know. Or is wrong about.

tcm: we're pretty sure the reason she couldn't find anything was because everything was in the New World. during a discussion yesterday, ET brought up the point that Ikulu was only running around three continents. plus, nobody in the Old World noticed a war except those fought by humanity. which brings up the very real possibility that a war was fought in the New World. the Octopuses came ashore (or whatever), fought something, and were defeated, all in the New World, the Old World oblivious to it all. this may be why we have no evidence of this third battle that Ikulu prepared so diligently for.

Noah: That is a very good hunch, if what Baba Iaga says is true. What do we know about the denizens of the New World, besides the tailed men? How far back does the tailed men society go? Who lived there before them? Who were their main competition?